Author Topic: New Army Camo Trials  (Read 7661 times)

Jbagel21

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New Army Camo Trials
« on: October 05, 2012, 02:46:41 PM »
For all the A-TACS fans and those who find these things interesting, I have some sad news... the Army has eliminated both the A-TACS Arid and FG patterns from the ongoing trials being used to decide our new camo. Only four designs remain in the running:

ADS-Inc (US4CS-Transitional and OCIE patterns)

Brookwood Companies (looks like fingerpainted camo)

Crye Precision (looks like a darker version of the old Scorpion pattern)

Kryptec (Mandrake pattern; already released as a civilian pattern to compete with Real Tree styles.)

Other than the Kryptec pattern, all the designs look really good and will be a welcome replacement for the ACU's, not to mention a fresh addition to the milsim world.
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Supercell

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 06:14:32 PM »
Thanks for that bit of info.  Good to know.
Jon
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Boba Fett

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 07:04:10 PM »
I take these trials as a sign that the economy is now fixed? ;)

In any case, I wish we would go with digital woodland and desert, with Multicam as a mission-specific uniform, and be done with this...


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Jbagel21

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 10:27:02 PM »
It has nothing to do with the economy, it has to do with the fact that the Marine Corps refused to allow the MARPAT pattern to be used by any other branch, resulting in the ACU/UCP pattern getting rushed into service after being selected by the cadets at West Point. Multicam will remain our primary Arid/Desert pattern for the near future, with our Temperate/Jungle pattern being the primary duty uniform used and thus the one selected. The patterns in the competition are being tested by enlisted troops as we speak, and the entire program is being funded by surplus funds from the PEO Soldier programs... thereby no new drain if that is your worry. Having seen the current digital patterns in combat environments first hand, the ones available are mediocre patterns at best, which is why new trials are being done. 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 12:45:09 AM by Jbagel21 »
"A professional makes his work play, and his play practice."

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Boba Fett

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 12:17:55 AM »
I agree, ACU/UCP/NWU/ABU all lack. I think we should work more on field gear (vests, pouches, comms, armor) more at the moment. A camouflage pattern isn't necessarily all-important to survival on the modern battlefield. And a "universal" camouflage is waste of time IMO. I'll post a paper I wrote on the subject once I upload it to a file-hosting site. Or maybe I'll copy+paste.  With you, the thread-starter's permission.


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Jbagel21

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2012, 12:39:54 AM »
"A camouflage pattern isn't necessarily all-important to survival on the modern battlefield": from experience, this is totally false. This was the very mindset that allowed for UCP to be selected in the first place; if you stand out in your surroundings to the extent many of the "modern" patterns cause you to, then you lose much of the ability to use concealment as a means of flanking and engaging your enemy... a very fundamental fact of battlefield survival.

"[W]e should work more on field gear (vests, pouches, comms, armor) more at the moment": why? WE (as in our military) have several excellent vest/armor systems that we use depending on the environment and mission; there is no immediate need to field anything different, nor much better available at this time. Our comms are the most effective in the world, and thanks to the MOLLE system there are more pouches and pack combos on the market than I can count, so using our funds to develop more would be a waste of taxpayer dollars and pointless to the soldier.

No offense, but please leave the military camouflage debate to those of us who are actual combat veterans, whose lives truly are affected by these things. You are welcome to start another thread on all of this, and in fact could be an interesting topic of discussion, but this thread was simply to answer a question I was asked in reference to the potential adoption of the A-TACS line by the military.   
"A professional makes his work play, and his play practice."

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Boba Fett

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2012, 07:29:56 PM »
haha you're right, I was an idiot last night.


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Shaggy

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 11:03:11 PM »
the Marine Corps refused to allow the MARPAT pattern to be used by any other branch, resulting in the ACU/UCP pattern getting rushed into service after being selected by the cadets at West Point. Multicam will remain our primary Arid/Desert pattern for the near future

2 things here.

1. We don't refuse people. Y'all just can't handle the amount of awesome contained in MARPAT. I mean its called MARINE PATTERN! Its the best stuff ever! Ok enough moto from me. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Spec Ops Forces like Delta Force allowed to wear MARPAT or is that only the Seals?

2.  Cadets......really? That's like asking a recruit which exercise he would like to do next in his IT session. They picked the one that was the cheapest and then went back to picking their noses and talking about how cool its going to be to be an LT.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they where seriously considering helping troops out in the field when they made y'all blend in with.... that one 1970's couch. Ok enough of my rant against the big war machine they call the Army. I love that y'all are going with multicam and hopefully whatever else they have y'all get next is as good as that. Multicam is an outstanding camo.

P.S. At least y'all didn't pull the one that the Navy did.... blue digital.... ok. Some one had to be smoking spice when that decision came down the pipe. (If you know what I mean)

~Shaggy
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Jbagel21

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 07:48:35 AM »
I can always count on Shaggy to swing the Corps angle lol! From my understanding, when MARPAT was being developed it was done by a joint team of from NATICK (Army) and the Marine Corps Sniper school. The Corps decided to patent/copyright the pattern, and has refused to allow the other branches to use it since; obviously the Socom community does what they want anyway. As far as the cadets, every enlisted man with any clue has hated them for that choice since. During my tour at West Point, I made them pay miserably for that choice on their FTX and made sure to remind them we could see them moving through the woods thanks to their "long grey line" camo (we were all wearing multicam vs. their ACU).
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Metal

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 05:22:03 AM »
I kinda jumped into this late, but regardless of weather the military is going to use it or not, for this area of our country ATACS FG is an excellent camo pattern and I will still gladly continue to wear it. In fact look for me in it at Mishko later this month. I still live my Multiglam more, but ATACS FG is so far one of my favorites.

On the subject of vests and armor, I love my USMC MTV. It's not the newer, smaller and lighter version, but the weight distribution is pheonominal. With soft armor and all four plates with no pouches you're looking at at least a ~25lb rig but you almost can't tell it's there once it's on and adjusted properly. The quality of the stitching and sewing are also incredible. You can tell at a glance that it was truely made to come out of a brutal beating just fine. I think we'll be good in that dept. for a while.

kriegtrooper

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2013, 05:17:39 PM »
The NWU isn't a combat camo it is to replace the old working uniform with something more modern and comfortable they have their own woodland and desert digital uniforms for seebeas and other personnel

Jbagel21

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 09:19:28 AM »
You are correct, but the NWU is already slated to be replaced as well. An update to this thread, Congress has held up the process yet again by ordering all branches of the military to go back to a common pattern family by 2018. Thanks to this, we will be stuck in ACU for the forseeable future while the Marine Corps and Army upper leadership squabble over what patterns truly work.
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Metal

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2013, 02:15:02 PM »
I read about that, Bagel. Didn't they decide to hold it up almost on the exact day the ARMY was scheduled to announce it's final decision on it's new camo?

This kinda sucks, but it kinda makes sense at the same time.

Jbagel21

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Re: New Army Camo Trials
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2013, 04:11:39 PM »
Yes, that's exactly what they did. Unfortunately, for them to make that call now does not make sense in light of our current situation.
"A professional makes his work play, and his play practice."

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter."  Ernest Hemingway