Springfield Airsoft
General Category => General Airsoft => Topic started by: Ghost on April 10, 2012, 05:10:12 PM
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Well, it's almost that time of year again; another year older, a new toy to shoot people with ;D. I'm seeking advice from all the gun gurus and hop-up heroes, I'm looking at a couple guns but wondering which would be best. Trying to start with a good base gun, all AEG's I've ever owned have been JG's and Im now looking at either KWA or G&G M4 but wondering which would be better, I know that KWA is coming out with their new CQR line but G&G also have a really good line up, but like I said I have no experience with anything besides JG and would like to know which is better or if there's another company out there thats better and my price range is $350 max
Thanks,
Ghost
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Well you are going to find this is going to go towards personal experience. I can give you many people that love CA and many people who just don't like CA. And I can do that with almost any of the major brands. So keep in mind to do your own research and not just listen to what people have to say. Positive or Negative. Take it all in and realize that most things you hear, and read, are personal opinion. But also realize that this is all you have to go on. lol All I am trying to say is keep an opened mind.
Jon
So Go Airsoft
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go WE. try out a GBBR.
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Gbbr's are really good but if you only have $350 dollars that puts you in a place. Are you wanting to get a AEG or something else to play with? The reason why i ask there are alot of guns that i think you might like to shoot but after awhile they become boring. Like i use to not like g36 style guns but then i purchased the g36cv and its amazing its a umerex product but i love it. Other then that i would look at it from the mind set of what you want it for... how often you are going to use it for that purpose and so on. To help us give you our input on what your kinda of looking at. Anyways jon is write because we all go off what we know... and what we know is what we like because i dont know what other people do but if there is something that i got 3 lemons out of i kind of dont go there anymore.
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Exactly Rev.
I got a few people that like Cyma's upper brand. But I really don't want to carry them because of all the people that have came through with pretty bad experiences with them. When I talk to you about a gun. It is from the 100's or even thousands of Airsofters that come through my store telling us stories. And all the guns that we have to work on. Put all that info together and that is where we are coming from.
I have sold alot of KWA's and WE's but there are certain guns I just won't carry. I will special order them but only after I let the customer know we aren't responsible for the gun just because of the bad experiences.
So again do like Rev said and think about what you like and what you plan on using it for. And build from there gathering information.
Jon
So Go Airsoft
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Well I'm looking for something for CQB but has a decent range in case I have to use it as a back up for an outdoor game, and compatability would help in case i see something cool i want to throw in it or if something breaks, I would like to get a TM but I don't know how/if Jon could get anything from over there without giving an arm and a leg for shipping, I'm staying open minded when it comes to companies and like Jon said reviews run from "This gun was made by God" to "I think a 9 year old superglued a walmart gun together and sold it" but I'm trying to avoid the second opinion (obviously) but never owned a higher end gun so I don't know which company would be best, never heard of GBBR's and I was looking at the G36 and the only problem i have with them is getting midcaps and rails on it and it's not going to be a heavy use gun, I never use full auto and only play 1 to 3 times a month at the bigger events
Ghost
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If you are looking at TM's this is the time to let me know. I am working on my order from overseas right now. So I can always check pricing to see what the damage is. You just never know.
It looks like you are looking at things right. GBBR Gas BlowBack Rifle. And a few of these guys love them. lol I'm sure you can tell. lol
Jon
So Go Airsoft
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There is a TM AK Beta Spetsnaz on the wall at SoGo. It is quite small but i have used it before and it works beautifully with actually a decent range. Clayton is selling it and i have been with him at a few outdoor games and he used it without trouble. Just thought i might throw that in. :D
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Well which would be better for outdoors, the TM AK-74 or the M16A2 bcus i can switch out the barrel on the M16 and I can make the AK work those are the ones I'd be interesed in. For those of you that saw me play last year you know I'm good with long guns indoors (My L96 and M16) lol
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Pistols are best for outdoors. If you plan on losing it. Anyways, do what Jon said. Find you're own gun. Some people like TMs for outdoors I personally think it just looks like they are being lobbed by the gun rather than shot out. Just tossing that in.
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Ok so lets recap a little...
Wants:
TM
CQB
Lite
Able to expand
You also asked a question about the g36 and AK Beta was mentioned aswell. G36 rails can be expandable for a little bit of money. CQB is all about mobility the best way to get that is with a pistol hands down. So you want to have that versitility plus have the option for not only having 15-30 shots. So that leaves us with SMGs, Assualt Rifles with fully collapsable stocks, Assualt Rifles with Folding stocks, and stubby rifles. There are other options aswell but not sure your leaning that way or not, but here they are anyways M93r, MP9, MP7, Scorpion, M11, and dont forget the old TMP.
Going the Ak route your best bet is to try out the 74u get a feel for it. What i did to get use to a gun that i would like is well... ask people that own "CQB" guns to borrow them for a game. See how they feel ... if its comfortable or not.
Ok now its time for me not to rant... Im going to say that i more then likely am going to be useing my MP9 and g36cv for cqb. My Sig 552 for field play only... but the magic of my g36cv is i can do both hehe. Anyways back to my point i think you should think about SMGs for your cqb weapon of choice... because those can still be used in field just as good. Take JoJo's MP5SD... by all thoughts that should be a indoor gun cause of the size and type... but he still uses it outdoors. Like i said just my opinion and thoughts but for indoors you need something small to pie the cornors so your smg's will help. I am a huge fan of the p90s and UMP's but those have huge drawbacks(mags) just an idea of what to look at.
Anyways im sorry about the rant just thought i would shed some more light on the subject and maybe help.
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Here is what I think about "Higher End" Companies.
**ALL THAT FOLLOWS IS OPINION BASED ON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and OBSERVATIONS**
Just letting you know.
Also I don't play CQB much so all my guns are field rated. Just not my style. But when I do play CQB I use a pistol (or that awesome AK Joe let me use.)
KWA. My M4 RIS was my pride and joy. Shot like a champ and when other people started having issues with there KWA's my M4 kept going with zero issues (I did break the Hop-Up but you can buy straight from KWA so it was all good). But when my CYMA's started matching her performance I have seen no need to keep her around besides to look cool.
I might have to fix the Hop-Up again or something because her performance right now is average at best.
UMAREX H&K. I know Rev recently picked one up so his opinion can also be taken into account. But I grabbed a full size G36 right when they came on market not really knowing what I was getting. This thing Rocks. I will end up turning it into a MG36 due to its insane stock performance and then make it perform even better. For CQB the G36c would be advisable everything else it to long IMO.
G&G. I really liked the AK I picked up from them. When the cheap Plastic front handle broke I threw the gearbox at Metalman (to make it not cry like a dying animal when it fires) and then its going into a CYMA body with some VFC/Matrix externals I had laying around. Not too much experience with them but when the body was unbroken she shot true.
CYMA. I have recently picked up a used CYMA AK74u (stock) and that thing rocks. I don't aim down sights so I dont mind them not lining up in the slightest with the BB. I can say its one of the best guns I have. CYMA seems to have picked it up a bit. $100 to start and when the gearbox dies you throw a few new parts in and keep going plus the externals look awesome.
As one of the American Milsim guys said "Buy a clone then upgrade" saves money.
CA. I really dislike CA but I'm one of those people who has one bad experience and never looks back. My first airsoft gun ever and it was terrible. I sold it and bought an Echo1.
TM. (Only opinion on this one.) I don't really like them. Accurate as crap but like someone said the BB's just seem to act throw or tossed out of the gun.
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Delt i fully agree on all of them. But i do have something to say about CYMA. I myself started with a CYMA mp5(first edition) back in 2005 i think it was... well somwhere around then. I didnt have the best of luck... i mean just fall apart terrible stuff. Then again that was almost 10 years ago so the airsoft industry has come a long way since then.
Umerex H&K is a dream though OMG. CA i have had bad luck with... but back to CYMA i do want to mention... i own a CYMA 030... and as of right now that is the only gun that i have owned thru the years that has not had a single problem. Yes its a little under powered(but im fixing that) but it gets the job done. If i could give an award for most improved over the years CYMA gets it hands down no ifs ands or buts.
I would like to mention one more thing about the CQB portian not to be pushy and go back to my other post, but i would stick with the SMGs style of gun if your going AEG for CQB. If your going gas but you still want a non pistol weapon or just something different then go with MP9, MP7 or m93r... just some different things to stand out in the building.
Sorry dont mean to rant again but as far as gun shoping is concerned im all about being unique... i try to get guns no one else has because of a few reasons... 1 you stand out and people notice you... 2 you get versitility on other weapons then just your basic m4 mp5 ak veriants. I know of a few people that own the REAL SWORD Type97(very expensive gun) and they let me hold it... i freakin loved it. Also i didnt think about this but you can always get the shoulder harness that has the mag pouches on 1 side and a key catch on the other... there ment to hold small smg's like mp5k scorpions and things of the like.
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If you're certain you want an m4, then I would firmly suggest a kwa. I have a Km4S and an sr7, and they're bothed despised throughout the land by anyone who has faced off against them. The externals are solid, with a nice finish. They accept all types of accessories, and the screws don't strip. As far as internals go, I think KWA has pretty much perfected the ver.II mechbox. For out-of-the-box performance, they're hands down, my favorite. A new Km4 is around $300. Throw in a good 9.6v battery and you've got top grade weapon for just under your budget. Good luck!
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Well I was looking into it and I've narrowed what I want down to the G36c's but which would be better, the Umarex G36cv or the KWA ver. II G36c, they're both the same price but I've never heard of Umarex until recently. . . mainly going to be and indoor gun but when winter hits it will probably be an outdoor gun. . . and do they sell after market cv stocks?
Ghost
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Umarex G36cv or the KWA ver. II G36c
Personally, I would go with the Umerex. The magical spring system allows for a quick change from CQB to Field.
. . . and do they sell after market cv stocks?
Yes (rare on most non-supporting sites but Jon might be able to find one (or two) and if he needs to buy bulk to get them cheap I might throw in for one)
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I myself have owned pretty much every brand out there over the years and my favorites are easily G&G and CYMA. Yes, personal preference.
If you don't want to be disapointed later down the road, don't buy a KWA. Porkchop was not 100% correct in his statements about them. They have SEVERAL proprietary parts that you usually have to end up buy from KWA's 'Pro Shop' and a lot of times they're out of stock. Even the horrid 2GX gearbox is somewhat proprietary. KWA also uses 2 piece gears on the spur and sector and maybe the bevel gear as well. They also use a metal air nozle that doesn't seal well at all. Lastly, KWA M4's are rather heavy in comparison to some other makers.
CYMA AK's are simply beastly. They do have some downfalls in the gearbox, but nothing that seems to effect them much. They have decent gears, but I doubt they're steel. That term gets thrown around too much anyway by people that have no clue what they're saying. Just because it's metal doesn't make it steel, and even though a magnet might stick to it still doesn't make it steel. Anyways, back to the internals. They do sport metal bushings. They have the average mediocre white polycarb piston and ported piston head. It should be noted that all AK's are stock with a one piece hopup unit. Also, CYMA has recently started making their own specific bucking that is WAY more effective and has much more longevity than the stupidly over priced KWA 2G bucking. No, they're not a Cadilac on the inside, but they are a REALLY solid gun externaly. I have yet to see a CYMA AK take a dive on the D9 team and there are over 10 of them in use with us. For the money you save on the initial gun, you could afford to make an absolute BEAST with the leftovers. I know I could build a gun with the same $300 you might spend on a KWA M4 out of a CYMA AK that would make the KWA go crying home to it's mommy. I know because I've done it....3 times. Keep in mind though, the CYMA AK's too are fairly heavy. Also most shoot too hot even for outdoor play, so if you go with a CYMA AK you'll probably be looking into downgrading the spring immediately.
If you've got to have an M4 and you want one for CQB, I hear tons of good reports on the G&G raider. The cool thing about the G&G pneumatic blowback's is that I have yet to find out without a full cylinder in the gearbox which would allow you to drop in a barrel easily up to 550mm without any ill effects from 'suck back'. G&G doesn't use two piece gears like KWA and they are pretty good quality, not the best, but good. They're black polycarb pistons are great and every bit as long lasting as KWA's pistons. G&G's also come with an excellent ported piston head that give some of the best airseal I've seen out of stock guns. G&G also sports an airseal air nozle. The Raider will also have a one piece hopup unit. G&G radiuses the front of their geaboxes where the front of the cylinder sets which does wonders to prevent cracking, rather than thinking like the morons at KWA and saying 'well we gotta make it BIGGER to be sronger!'. G&G guns use 8mm bushings I do believe and I have no idea what the stock bushings are made of but it's not the greatest stuff. I've personally never seen one break, but it wouldn't suprise me if it did. Their wiring is VERY small. G&G brags on their wiring, but personally it worries me being such a small gauge. That being said though, that wiring cunducts extremely well in comparison to other stock guns' wiring of a larger gauge. With G&G's nylon fiber body, your gun will have more strength than most guns with metal bodies while keeping it much lighter. In one of my youtube videos of OP Bright Rain VI, you can watch me running across open ground with my G&G M4 and taking a spill right into the mud and sliding in it all right on top of my nylon fiber body M4. I pick it up immediately and no later than a minute into the video (with no breaks) you see the gun is fine and still operating properly. Even after I got home I went over that gun everywhere to try to find breaks or fractures and didn't find a single one.
One brand people keep leaving out on here is VFC. VFC is 'up there' as far as overall quality. I'd have to say they're like getting a KWA that is lighter and has MUCH MUCH MUCH better externals. They do have some weak points in their internals. I just got a VFC SCAR L from SoNorUs that he had to replace the piston in. So far though, that has been it's only failure. SoNorUs said he did a lot of research on the SCAR when he had it and his research showed that the pistons were indeed the first and most likely part to fail on a VFC. With VFC though, you'll probably be blowing all of your money on just the gun. That's probably the biggest downfall I can think of with them seeing as I have yet to crack open the gearbox on mine to judge the internal quality.
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Thought I would add, the piston in the vfc shattered, but the rest of the internals were/are solid.
I also just purchased an Elite Force (VFC) PDW, which was double feeding on semi(second safety) but worked like a boss on full auto. I didn't want to mess with it and email Elite Force. They told me to sent it in, and they covered the cost of return shipping. I received an email today saying they are sending me a brand new PDW. There was no hassle... I never even asked for a new gun. I think I told Metal all I really wanted was a new bucking, and maybe I could save the one in the gun. I'll pay more for customer service like that.
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Yes the CV stock you can buy it seperatly. The thing is with comparing those two i would say the UMEREX for a couple of reasons and not because i have one. You stated that you would like to have this gun for both CQB and Field if im not mistaken. So that being said let me explain my reasoning... In my review i posted the fact that the UMEREX H&K 36cv has the quick change spring feature. I deminstrated that at sogo in SA/SoGo event a couple of months back... The thing is with this you can a CQB regulated spring and a Field regulated spring. The change takes Flathead screwdriver and a Hex wrench... takes 3 min or less to change the spring and you dont have to sit there and put a gearbox apart or together. I can actually take pictures to demonstrate it... hmm thats a good idea i think i might do that for a DIY thing or put that in my review as a reply... hmm briliant. Plus another bonus to the gun is this you can get it in Dark Earth... there isnt another g36 out there that is DarkEarth unless you paint it yourself. That is my thoughts hope they help.
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So ghost the thread isnt closed yet so i just assumed that you have not gotten your gun... What was your choice? Or have you not chose yet?
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Not to rip off Darth Vader, but Metal, "I find your lack of faith disturbing". lol I've enjoyed many years of debate with many others players over what brand is truly best, and my experience has been that no brand has proven to be "flawless". I simply haven't seen the issues with either of my KWA's that a few others I know have seen with theirs. I used to think my CA was the greatest, until something broke. Same story with my son's old ICS, and my friends G&P. I've had my KM4S since '08, and aside from it getting ran over by a car, I've never had a single problem with it, even while running an11.1v lipo through it the entire time. My sr7 has given me two years of problem free performance as well. I'm not alone, many KWA owners are die hards for the same reason as G&G owners, or King Arms, or any other, I think. Good luck with a product instills faith in a brand name just as bad luck can destroy it. I launched a five year smear campaign against ICS once, just 'cause of a problematic MP5. When my KWA was ran over, I had good tech support from their pro-shop, and that was appreciated. This isn't so much of an issue with a gun you get from SOGO, since their guys can take almost any gun they sell and keep it running forever. For what I'm looking for in an aeg, KWA has delivered, but I'm more focused on external upgrades, where Metal and other techs tend to specialize in what's under the hood. (not selling him short, Metals' AK's have some wicked furniture on 'em too) Some like corvettes, some like mustangs, some like mopar. I think the diversity in personal preference brings more to the game. I'm still KWA all the way.
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*Sigh*
Again with the running over your gun thing?
You're killing me here. LOL.
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That event is ingrained in the minds of all of us. Even though I wasn't there. haha
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Well joe this just goes to show that while your stamina on keeping up with the younger ones is great. Your eye site still needs some adjusting.
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LMAO!!! Hey Joe, remember in the movie "Pet Cemetery" when the little boy gets ran over by a speeding semi-truck? It was just like that. hahaha.
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Michael, please tell everyone what gun you have long since purchased.
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Well, forgive me for posting this and not going with what I had originally planned, but Evan recommended me a G&G PM5 (MP5) for CQB and I love it, the only thing I need to replace on it is 2 of the bushings (8mm) but other than that I couldn't be happier with the gun, it's light, looks mean, has rails, and a pretty good ROF for not really doing anything to it (19 bb's per second on 9.6v). However I'm looking at getting rid of my "Frankenstien" of a JG M4 and looking at a KWA KM4 (carbine) for outdoor (indoor for summer), watching Chris play with his KM4 at So Go and when he used it at an outdoor event it just flabber-gasted me that a gun with a 4 or 5 inch barrel was outgunning me so badly, and all the reviews I've seen on it have pretty much put it above all others and the videos of it just make it sound like a monster of a gun with a 9.6v or 11.1v lipo, and its aluminum so the satisfaction of a full metal gun without having to much of a burden to carry at games, the only problem is its just a plain LE/M4A1, nothing special, but rails and accesories come in due time and looking at getting that around Thanksgiving hopefully, I did look at the G36cv for a while but I like having the all the options for what I want to turn my gun into, and I did look at the CYMA's for a little while but I guess I'm just not an AK guy, but thanks to all you gun guru's for the advice, I do trully apreciate it guys
Thanks,
Micheal
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Thank you, Ghost.
There are plenty of aftermarket stocks you may find better suited to your project.
Locked.