Author Topic: Has Anyone heard about this??  (Read 6671 times)

Takira

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Has Anyone heard about this??
« on: September 21, 2012, 03:21:05 PM »
I was browsing around, trying to see about maybe making my own silencer or foregrip due to the fact of low funds when I stumbled upon this. (source: *********)

General Firearm Silencer Laws

Contrary to popular belief, removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors are legal to own under federal law. There are, however, 16 states, plus the District of Columbia , that prohibit the civilian ownership of removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors. At this time, the following states allow private ownership of removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD,MS, MT, ND, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA,WV, WI, and WY. Of the sixteen states which do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow class 3 dealers and class two manufacturers to possess removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors.

Removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile. The buyer then has the chief law enforcement officer (Sheriff, Chief of Police, head of state police agency, district attorney, a judge with the power of arrest, or any other law enforcement officer approved for this procedure by the National Firearms Act branch of the BATF) sign the rear of the Form 4 attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a law enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a transfer tax, as it must be paid each time ownership of the removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as the silencer is owned by the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir, with no tax incurred.

Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes less than sixty days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of his new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors can be transported to other states which allow their ownership, but to transport a removable Silencer / Moderator / Sound Suppressors into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges.

Airsoft Silencer Laws

The GCA defines the term “firearm” as: A.) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; B.) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; © any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or D.) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3)©.

The definition of “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows: The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

The NFA defines the term “firearm” to include any silencer as defined in section 921 of the GCA. 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(7).

The term “make” is defined in the NFA to include manufacturing, putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm. 26 U.S.C. 5845(I).

Any fake silencer ( for airsoft, toy or real weapons) having any void / cavity / open space on the inside where gas can accumulate it is 100% ILLEGAL in the USA. Any Airsoft Fake Silencer that has removable end caps is also 100% illegal to possess in the USA. Just possession of either an airsoft fake silencer tube or end cap (no matter the material of construction) is a felony which can land you in a Federal Penitentiary for up to 10 years.

A very serious issue as there are already a number of ex-airsoft importers / re sellers serving time on this very issue. BATF does not fool around with this issue and the new Homeland Security / Patriot Act gives greater latitude to Federal Prosecutors as it is considered FELONY POSSESSION of an UNREGISTERED Title II device. Unlike other illegal airsoft import issue in regards to DOC Approved markings or not being an approved BATF importer for airsoft, which the Treasury Department does not have the time or inclination to consider top priority... They DO and ARE actively looking for anyone trafficking in airsoft silencers.

The ATF classifies a suppressor as a device which may be attatched to a weapon and will silence one shot by one decibel, and is detachable. That's the 'by the book' definition.

QUOTE (paradigmsk8er @ Oct 31 2005, 11:00 PM) *
This is all from firsthand experiences with the ATF and department of homeland security. Feel free to argue, but this is what they told me:

" A suppressor is qualified as anything that suppresses a gunshot by 1 dB or more, as stated above. as such, anything that exceeds this (no matter if it is reusable or not) and is designed to or can readily fit on a firearm is considered a controlled item. As such, they are technically illegal unless you have the proper class III goodies to go with it."

For example: King Arms 200 mm light weight suppressor suppresses a .22 LR round by 11 dB average in an ATF laboratory test. How do I know? They tested mine. This is in a repeatedly fired test. as such, my airsoft suppressor was seized and destroyed (along with my KJW USP since it had a threaded barrel)

I didn't get any trouble since they new it was intended for an airsoft gun, but yes they can be illegal. If they can suppress the noise from a gunshot, then they break the law.


The above quote is edited for grammar, spelling, and emphasis.

As we can see, an AIRSOFT suppressor HAS been confiscated and destroyed by the ATF in a civil environment. A supposedly "legal" airsoft suppressor was able to suppress a firearm 11x the legal limit. Yes thats right. A $30 "mock" supressor muffled the sound of a .22 rifle by 11x the legal limit. But how about elsewhere? USA and Canadian customs have stopped and destroyed the airsoft silencers that were proven to lower the report of a gun by 1 DB.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=98329

And for everyone saying " Putting this on a real gun is impossible." "It will explode and kill you" I'd like you to tell that to ATF agents if your censored2.gif is getting handed to you, and see what happens. Plus, do you really think a .22 short subsonic round is too much to handle for these metal tubes that already have been shown to work? The ATF has already caught people with "mock" suppressors that are able to handle .22LR rounds.

Just so we are all clear on this. Foamed, or otherwise, working airsoft silencers are at the very best grounds for destruction. At the very worst, they are grounds for fines and or jail time. People have been arrested for stuffing potatoes, steel wool and pillows on the ends of guns, so don't be surprised when your foamed suppressor lands you in jail. I for one, don't think 1 or 2 DB off the report of your airsoft gun is worth the risk of breaking a serious federal law
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:01:43 PM by Supercell »

Boba Fett

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 09:58:35 PM »
That's just plain stupid.  So, possesion of a potato is legal, you just can't put it on your firearm? What about putting a potato on your airsoft gun? There's some seriously warped logic in play here.
I had never heard that you had to have a class III in MO.

In any case, I miss the TM foam-lined silencer I used to have.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 10:48:56 PM by Supercell »


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det. mcclane

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 10:40:46 PM »
Ohhhh, this thread is going nowhere good. I give it a page until the inevitable derails, arguments about about governments and legality, and the lock by wiser heads such as Joe. No offense, I do appreciate the information, but I just can't see this going well.

Supercell

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 10:47:31 PM »
Oh this is going to be stopped by me on here.  Here it goes...................
Let's keep this with a civil tone and bring up good points and thoughts.  Det. McClane is right we aren't going to get this into all the red tape and other points that does nothing but bring out anger in folks.
I don't want to lock this yet.  But we will be watching it closely.  I would love to hear if anybody has had first hand knowledge of how LE treats these things.  I have been in Airsoft since 1997 and there were even stories back then.  In fact right after I got my TM silencer they totally went away from the market place.  Then one day they just showed up in the mid 2000's.  I just saw someone with one and they said they just ordered it.  So I am not sure when they figured out a way around the silencer laws.

How about that?  Let's keep it calm.

Jon
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« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 11:00:50 PM by Supercell »

det. mcclane

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 10:56:25 PM »
Boom! The mighty Jon brings down the banhammer to smite all foes!

Takira

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 01:02:03 AM »
I did not mean to cause any trouble or anything like that. But I was just curious to know who all else has heard of this? I mean I have heard of ppls guns/silencer being taken but I dont know if it was because of this.

The reason I posted this also was I wanted to c if someone else could help me clear it up more. I was in the process of looking to buy a silencer but now Im kind of holding off due to this little deal. Like I said, I didnt meant to cause trouble or step on any toes to say the least I just want to c if some ppl or someone can help clear this a bit better?

Takira

Joe

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 11:34:30 AM »
Takira,

Stick with a solid metal, unlined mock suppressor and you'll probably be all right.

You can go even further and buy one of those Noveske sound amplifiers.  Looks cool, is legal and makes a GBB pistol (probably a GBBR, too) sound like a lion.  A very angry lion.

As luck would have it,

*wait for it*

*wait*

*wait*

So Go happens to have one in stock.  So Go can order you one if you prefer a different color.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 11:36:52 AM by Joe »
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Takira

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 11:40:19 AM »
sweet. Ill check it out. Like Ive talked to you yesterday. Im moving but im kind of weary because of this

Takira

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2012, 01:28:30 AM »
I'm going to keep going about my airsoft asual. If the BATF found my mock supressors to be a true threat they would have put a stop to their production and/or importation by now.

det. mcclane

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Re: Has Anyone heard about this??
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 10:20:18 AM »
That's pretty much my thoughts on it as well. Personally, I think the ATF has much bigger fish to fry than toy gun suppressor sales.
I really would love to find either a Socom MK23 or a Maruzen P99 Full set like I used to have. I got lots of kills with the P99 because no one could hear it. Just a small thud, and then  HIT!!