Poll

What game types apeal to you the most?

VIP
2 (12.5%)
CTF(capture the flag)
0 (0%)
Force on Force with objectives
3 (18.8%)
Force on Force without objectives
2 (12.5%)
King of the Hill
0 (0%)
Bomb Scenerio's
3 (18.8%)
Capture and hold points
3 (18.8%)
Hostage Rescue
1 (6.3%)
Zombie
2 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: April 18, 2012, 06:51:43 PM

Author Topic: New ideas for Match Play?  (Read 77371 times)

Supercell

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2010, 10:26:46 AM »
So this game can be over in a few minutes?  Since the only way to figure out the cases is to open it.  And once it has exploded it can't be reused.  So now you just have to get other case to your base.
And if my team figures out which is the good case first when we come across it then all we have to do is get the bad case to the other teams respawn and open it. (of course taking the good case to our base.)

Even if the other team has the good case and they don't know it.  When the first bomb case goes off then all they have to do is get back to their resqawn once they hear that the bomb has gone off?  This might be a good place to add in 2nd bomb case instead of just one.  Then you have automatically added another element to it.  As well as cut down on making it a quick game.

Just a thought.  I know you guys know your situation better down there and how your core players play.  I am just thinking back on how all the games we have tried and played over the last 13 years have actually been played after all the thought and planning went into the game and ...  Well those darn players can always throw a kink into those master plans on paper. lol  But you just adapt and add or subtract things into or out of the games.  Just like you are doing.

Thanks,
Jon
So go Airsoft
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 10:28:32 AM by Supercell »

Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2010, 10:33:17 AM »
I see what he is saying also.
But what ive thier where multiple cases?
like 4 of them and they had perks and some had bad cases out there?
what if it was like a game? your on your mission then pick a package up and inside was a perk you could use?
like a(n) AUV,aireal recon, Mortat strikes *players must select a grid on the map* ETC...

This is what I am "thinking" of doing at New Dawn to keep interests.

Supercell

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2010, 10:43:48 AM »
Yea any multiple cases would help.  Perks would be nice.  Even a hard clue on how to identify the information case or just 1 of the other bomb cases.  I like to give people at least a fighting chance to figure something out.  And not give them the thought of "Well there is no other way to find out so I guess I will just kill myself"  I say that since some airsofters already think that way while they are playing.  They don't play as a team or use any tactics.  It is just go and spray and if I get hit, I get hit.  I like to learn from getting hit or making a bad choice in the way I play.  So I am saying give them a way out not to die and at least a hope of finding a way to identify at least one bomb or even the good case.  Again just a thought coming from where I am sitting.

Also when I say quick game in my previous post.  I am talking in outdoor terms.  Not in CQB terms.  The games are played differently for sure.

Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2010, 10:46:59 AM »
Supercell.. I like the idea for Op: New Dawn give me a pm with our idea.

Dragon

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2010, 12:03:23 PM »
Multiple cases would work fine , and having perks would add in an element.

 What I was originally worried about was the scenario taking too long, so I only used two.  

 There is a possibility the game could be over quickly knowing which case is the bomb early on. So maybe I'll add a case or two more.  It's not a bad idea really.

 I had just envisioned five cases in the beginning... and was considering the time it would take the players to hunt down the cases, take one ... while getting shot at by the OPFOR.  Then, from there it's hit or miss... anyone could get lucky right off the bat I think.

but, I was worried about the game stretching way beyond a thirty through forty minutes play span, so I cut it back to two.

The aspect of not working as a team... believe me, on our field that would be almost impossible to solo, or pull off not working as a team.   
I know what you are saying about the " Shoot first" Kill everything, and ... maybe do the objective players.  It's an all to common problem, I even hear the big Operators at functions like BullDog, and OK Invasion complain about those that shoot the role-players before anything transpires. ( Or big events, maybe not those exact two).

 I try to remind everyone though, airsoft isn't call of duty ... and I do try to set things to where it's challenging enough that even sprayers have to think and work as a team.  I'm not saying there aren't ever going to be issues... I know you get that no matter how well you plan.

 For me... it's not about the bombs or cases though.  If the players are happy, and have fun doing something... then it's an epic win , no matter how it turns out.

If someone gets the attitude of, " well.. i'll just kill myself ( and anyone nearby) and go sit in the respawn until time is up or the game ends", and ruins the game for others ... I'm not opposed to having a chat with them in the in-between time... find out the why of it all.
If it's just a trigger happy player.. I can invent a role that will satisfy their urge to shoot at anyone moving, lol.  If they aren't having fun like the others, I'll find out why and find a way to make the games more fun for them and everyone else.

 This is my first airsoft/milsim admin role... but I had about 12 years of paintball field operation under my hat. There was a big issue of the same variety there too, and most the time.. I found I could reach those players. Most the time, it's a in-experienced player or three that just don't understand the nature of the game.  I found it's alot easier to get them involved into stuff that works for them and everyone... and I bet I can apply that skill into airsoft as well. 

  I know already things aren't going to be perfect in any airsoft game, scenario... players are going to pull rabbits out of holes you never dreamed possible.  It's just the nature of the beast really.

 I'm fine with rolling with the punches, moving on, learning from mistakes and other operators. 

 Cause the best part of this particular scenario... it can go two ways basically:

Way 1- The "teams" play it out as intended, it's a hard objective to do right... and they go through it, and pull it off.
or
Way 2- It's over quickly by purpose, happen stance, or what-ever factors...

 Regardless of how it plays out... there's a short break, we go to the staging area... and get set for the next game.

 There's always another game to play in my mind, or in my little book of games ... so we just carry on and play, and have fun.

 I guess my long winded response just means...

No matter how things play out, we are going to make a big day of play.  I will find a way or things that give every player some satisfaction.  I'm pretty good at getting to know folks as they show up, and watch them as they play to find out their style and I ask everyone what they do like in airsoft.

I am not opposed to even taking those few that just don't seem to get it, and switch roles a bit with them. I kinda spot them out, and tell em... "alright, time for something different... you guys are going to plan what the next game objective is. I'll give ya 10 minutes to pick a game", and then I'll work with them to round out the rough edges for another 5... then it's set up and game on. 
It's amazing at how a person(s) evolves when you put the ball into their hands, and now they aren't thinking as a mere player with a gun, but how to make a game thats fun for them and everyone else.
It works.. ~most~ the time.  ( some folks are just lost causes... but thats for a entirely different thread, lol ).

Plus, I got back up too.  Our team is small, only 6 players strong, but Cody ( our actual Team Leader) and the rest of D-9... we work like a clock together when it comes to unification. It isn't as if I have to do it all alone, I got Cody who can step in and take over if I'm having trouble as well.  I might be the game admin for most our stuff, but it's his field... lol.

 Alright I just re-read all this... and figured out I need some coffee...

oh, and Yes Rev... if I post anything, you may use it. In fact I'm honored that the idea at it's base was something you would like to use. 
But, the idea was inspired in my head, while I was reading that airsoft magazine by W.A.R.T. and that big scenario event published in it.  ( Of which the biggest flaw I seen in that set up, was using the "scientist", and "hiding" bombs on certain players. Other than that, well written, and very interesting!)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 12:49:28 PM by Dragon »

Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2010, 12:06:44 PM »
i was thinking since new dawn will be long that the perk would be like calling air strike on a grid location within4 squares around you! etc or the booby trap would read * call medic you and your team expose to antrax have nice day* etc

Supercell

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2010, 02:10:15 PM »
Dragon,

I have no doubt in what you can do.  Your posts on here and So Go forums pretty much show you have your stuff together.  It has actually been nice ready your thoughts since I know they have been thought out with some experience.  And I know your game idea was just that and you were putting it out there for us to talk about.

You actually said something else that is exactly true.  Those guys that run around and just shoot, if you give them a so called job that is making them think a bit and then help walk them through it then they start to improve their play.  I get to do that all the time with some of our smaller party's when I see a team just not doing anything right and dieing all the time.  And then I play a game or 2 with them showing them what to look for, listen for and how to respond to.  And then I can usually step out in the middle of the 2nd or 3rd game and they kick butt.  And they are totally stoked about the way they played.

And then there are those guys that no matter what you say they will just run around shooting.  But we continue to try. lol  Even those guys sooner or later get tired of that and want the game to get more interesting.

Renegade you are right, this game would work good for you with your additions.  And I am sure you have more to it than you even mentioned.  But I am sure you are in control also and don't need me saying much. lol

Well before I write a book I better stop.

Jon
so go Airsoft
Supercell

Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2010, 02:31:47 PM »
Actually supercell...
This is my first Admin rodeo with only 4 years of airsoft play time.....although i have multiple years in other combat training types.
I could use more admins in april...

Supercell

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2010, 02:52:28 PM »
Well that experience helps out for sure. 
Well keep us posted on your admin needs and we'll see if you can help out some.  I am hoping to make it out to your event.  I'm sure the other guys are thinking about it too.  Now there seems to be a bunch of new fields coming up in area we will be having to travel around a bit.  We need to still get out to one of Joplins games.  West Plains guys got a field to play in and so do our Ark. guys.
It makes my world of Airsoft smile just that much more.  And what makes it great is that everybody is giving it their all for everybody and not just their own core group of players..

Jon
so go Airsoft

Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2010, 03:12:28 PM »
Let me Share something with you guys.
This Morning at 0630 my other half i love very much acused me on having an affiar. NO i am not.
The only affair i am having is AIRSOFT. I put my heart into it as i do her. That should tell you all how much i am puting into this Operation! let alone Training Day in February.

Supercell

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2010, 03:25:01 PM »
That's to bad.  I hope she believed you.  This Airsoft thing takes up every minute of my day.  The good thing is my wife totally supports it and even works at our store when she isn't doing her other job.  Plus we are getting ready to have our 23rd wedding anniversary tomorrow.
I was going to say something joking about taking your Airsoft gun out to dinner or something else and quickly realized that it really isn't a funny matter.  I hope all is well with her now and hopefully she believes you.  Good luck and let us know if you need anything from us for your event.

Jon
So go Airsoft
Supercell Dev. inc.

Dragon

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2010, 04:50:57 PM »
Jon,

I didn't intend for my book to sound defensive if it did, I was just trying to explain.

Here's the skivy of why I try to come up with other things....

Well, Force on force is fun, and simple.. it allows for alot hiding, running, shooting, positioning...ect.  But there's really no real objective other than take out as much enemy as you can.  I use force on force, to kinda get everyone going usually... usually the first and last game of the day will be a force on force.  It's just a simple fun way to shoot, makes everyone get in the mood to play, or winds up a long day of play, and doesn't require much brain power to do when tired, lol.

 Capture the flag games... these are kinda fun, but honestly it's done to death!  Some newer players probably don't understand what I mean when I say that, but from many years of paintball... I still hear the grumbles and see the eye rolls when a CTF game is announced.  " Oh, another CTF?" <<< So I try to modify CTF type of games with more interesting and challenging props. ( The case game here is just a super-glorified CTF when ya think about it.) Different ways to complete those objectives.

 VIP games .. I like these, but it takes a good amount of briefing, and everyone on the same page to do these properly. First you need a participant or a few, that actually want to be the VIPs, and are fine with playing the role.  Since most people want to shoot alot, and play with their friends, team ..ect... it's harder to find those individuals that will put effort into those roles.
If there is any "information passing" , or role-playing in these types of scenarios... it gets a tad bit harder to keep any OPFORS from just killing the VIPS, or them being killed by friendly fire/neglect..ect.
( Like at my first time at Sogo's, we did the VIP walk through.... I had no idea the guy I just crept up on was the VIP , I was actually trying to safety kill the guy on the other side of him, turning around... but Jon was right there and thought I meant the VIP. Boy was I surprised when he INDEXed the game and the dude turned around and was holding the case!  If I had known that was the VIP... I would have used different tactics and called some back up in. As it was, I didn't see him before, our intell was off big time on who the VIP was, so I thought it was just another small cluster of OPFORs down close to the back door. )
When it comes to playing extra roles... those types of games usually involve alot of recon, and defense... and generally airsoft players... even experienced ones don't think like that. Most have a "offensive" mindset right from the start. I find any scenario using "extras" very hard to coordinate , and operate smoothly. Most the time, VIPs and extras get shot or eliminated before anything really can transpire the way the game is supposto go.

It can be done, but you gotta get everyone on the same page, with a clear understanding of the end goal on both sides.
( You can substitute any role for VIP in that description... scientist, downed pilots, prisoners..ect. Basically any role, thats not one force, taking on opposing forces. )

 Espionage types of games, take alot of set up and props... and it's probably where I have a weak link in game planning there. Oh, they would be fun, if you had the resources and time to pull off... but generally, you don't get those luxuries.

But, if all you did was force on force all the time, or the same CTF games everywhere you played airsoft, I think most everyone would get bored with airsoft. So, I just try to spice stuff up.  

 When everyone first starts out... they want to shoot, and shoot OPFORs.. alot!  Everyone wants action.  I call it the "video game syndrome".  It's fun , but it's a cheap thrill easily forgotten.

 It's when you get to the point where you are not only trying to shoot OPFORs, but also complete harder more challenging objectives... thats what last for years in your mind. You remember the feeling of accomplishment and defeat. In your mind, you think back.. " I should have done this, or our team should have did this"... overcoming obstacles to reach a higher objective ,making through a challenge is where you hone skills and become a better airsoft player.
Anyone that has been to a big Event, probably could relate to that.  
Though, you gotta be careful and not make challenges impossible or too hard.... the over-all objective is to have fun, not frustrate everyone who plays... sometimes thats a very difficult thing to juggle.

and probably the HARDEST thing to do, is getting people to work as a team, and coordinate together.
Even those willing to do it... sometimes have a difficulty getting it done.
Two real life aspects I can apply to that is Football and Military Training...
In both aspects, you spend a great majority of the time... adjusting to working with, trusting, and relying on other individuals. The goal of the coaches and Drill Srg.s are trying to make you a better player, and soldier yes, but also removing your individuality to a degree and force cooperation, trust, and team-work into folks that probably would never connect outside those environments.
In airsoft... there's no "forcing" it... it's up to each individual to figure that out on their own, and start making it happen. To work as  a team in airsoft, with other players you don't know well, have much in common with... is very very difficult.
 Thats why I try to get to know everyone that hits our field almost immediately. By the time the day is over... the guys showing up aren't just another player, ... they are friends and a part of our airsoft "family" from then on out.
Granted... I had not done this so much at Sogos... generally sticking to my comfort zone, and with my team mates in between games pretty much. Mostly, I was just put out of my element a bit, and I didn't want to seem intrusive. I'm one of the infidels at Sogo, lol,  where as on my home turf, I can rightly extend hospitality. ( Though, I've met a few individuals that breached that gap at Sogo's, and would love to see them more in all the airsoft places I'm at! )
My thing is... if someone is more than just a body to shoot at on the field... , then it's easier to transition everyone, myself included, into teamwork and cooperative roles. Make someone feel welcome, and appreciated, more comfortable ... it goes a long way into getting everyone into a more "accepting" role of a team player in airsoft.

 So, any extra game I try to make... usually involves alot of oppurtunity for teamwork, and over-coming slightly difficult challenges. I say opportunity, because as we discussed before... there are always kinks in the best laid plans, and in reality, it's up to each individual in the game to go the right direction and make the best of it. Just because the oppurtunity is there, doesn't mean it will get used the way you intended.
Then it's.. you learn from it, let it roll off ya like water from a duck's back... and move on. Analyze it later to figure out what could be done differently... but during an event day, just move on to the next phase, and hope it goes better.
If nothing is working...then stop everything, and discuss with everyone how to make it better for everyone. Then apply it.

At the end of the day... I want everyone happy, and even though sore, tired, and ready to go get some grub... I want everyone to have a long lasting good feeling of fun and accomplishment.
Which is my ultimate goal in any scenario , game, or event day.  
It's really not the objective, or how it plays out that matters really... , it's the over-all fun level that emerges out of it.
If someone new arrives, and plays all day.. and leaves with the idea in their head, they will be back as soon as we host something else... then I done my job, and  to me there's no better feeling than that.

On everything else, i'm glad Jon had the insight to look at my post, and see loop-holes that could happen.  
I will be the last person to say I'm perfect.  Even if it seems like I got it all together by reading my post... , man I'll tell ya... I'm far from the best! I try, thats all I can say.  Though I'm not Frosty or Claymore, I'm probably not even in the same bracket as those guys.  I'm not as bold as Renegade as to try and plan a full scale MilSim Event, complete with restrictions lol.

All I can do is try, .. try to make it interesting and fun.



Renagade

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2010, 04:55:59 PM »
I am not reading all of that LOL
I know i understood what you meant.

Dragon

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2010, 04:57:41 PM »
Let me Share something with you guys.
This Morning at 0630 my other half i love very much acused me on having an affiar. NO i am not.
The only affair i am having is AIRSOFT. I put my heart into it as i do her. That should tell you all how much i am puting into this Operation! let alone Training Day in February.

Sorry to hear that man!

she's probably just feeling neglected is all.. take a few days off, and go remind her that you are in love with her, and she has nothing to worry about.  Airsoft world will still be going, and don't loose one great thing over another... take a break, and tend to the real needs first.  I promise your event and airsoft will still be here when the dust settles!
Trust me.. if you loose someone over a misunderstanding, and putting all your effort into airsoft is causing the mis-understanding... you'll wind up resenting what you do love ( airsoft) after a while.

 It's best to nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

Dragon

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Re: New ideas for Match Play?
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2010, 05:04:36 PM »
I am not reading all of that LOL
I know i understood what you meant.

lol, no worries... I can write novels... at times.

okies though , back on topic... :)