FPS does NOT = Range

[Brendon]

I just felt like bringing it up. Not sure why. But I hate how people have that misconseption. Like how airsoft is about pain. -__-

[j man 3]

LOVE THE PAIN!!! and this is true in fact to a degree depending on bb weight it can decrease the range in some special cases.

[scottxxx]

some ppl just cant take a hit lol 

[ShootEmUp]

LOVE THE PAIN!!! and this is true in fact to a degree depending on bb weight it can decrease the range in some special cases.

You both are right, more FPS has the power to send a heavier bb farther but if you are using a lighter bb it will catch air and not go as far but still have the same muzzle velocity. The same concept applies to real combustable ammunition.

[j man 3]

but real ammo is aerodynamic and airsoft bbs are not so they don't hit terminal velocity as easily because the break up the air flow.

[chuckysknife3]

Most dependd on hopup, nub, and bucking, it has a big effect.

[Dragon]

The common misconception is that distance is TOTALLY determined by FPS... but the FPS ( or joules) is only a part of a whole that effects the distance factor , per weight of the BB being shot.

 What "sells" is "higher FPS" ratings... unfortunately.  People, especially the inexperienced,... see " 400+ FPS " ratings, and mentally equate that as being a "superior" gun aspect.

 I've even noted where more experienced operators, will make the mistake of, tossing in a m130+ into an AEG, thinking, their shots will go farther longer.
We know, given a "standard" set up... normal torque motor, and gears, standard bucking, and barrels... this simply isn't the case.  Not only, are they confused and disappointed as to why their "upgrade" didn't have the results they desired... , performance of a stronger spring, means slower responses on trigger contact, motor working harder... faster draining batteries, ect... none of which equals any kind of DISTANCE.

 Higher FPS, such as in a DMR or Sniping Rifle ... usually is custom designed to "push" heavier weight BBs , at or beyond the "distance" a "normal" or Standard grade AEG would be able to perform.  Heavier BBs, carry a higher momentum ( kinetic energy) far longer than a light one does, but only really shines in cases of wind or heavy brush factors usually.  But, it takes some "fine tuning" to gain most excellent PERFORMANCE even out of one of these platforms.

 One thing, I like to do for myself... is to get the FPS as LOW as I can, to generally get a .25 to the distance I desire.  I take that a step farther, and I am more worried about ACCURATE DISTANCE ... that is, at what distance I can aim the AEG, and it still hit the Target... RELIABLY.  I'm sure , I target most OPFOR between 75-120 feet , which is a reasonable accuracy distance inside the 250-300 Maximum distance such a light BB will travel outside anyways.

TM brand AEGs, really had a great "idea" , when they offered top performance, with a 300 FPS limit.  

 Honestly, the only drawback to this concept ( as they do it) is usually a "slower" traveling shot... even though it goes out just as far as it's American or other "clone" counterparts that DO shoot at a higher FPS rating.  Theoretically ( cause it's subjective) , TMs have a nice accuracy... meaning you can hit where you aim, inside it's "hop-up" arc inside that distance.
The "trade off" is a slower traveling .25 ( as compared to .2s that is used in the areas TMs were made it, to stay under the "joules" limits set by their laws.  ) , where as at some distances... you can see the shot coming, and simply side step it... or keep moving out of it' s path.
Still, the FPS "limit" there has less to do with accurate distance, than what folks "think".  A slightly higher FPS, simply means, a BB will travel a bit faster along it' s "arc".

There are ways to "improve" that though here in the US...

like Airseal, Airseal, Airseal! ... The more "focused" air you can put behind the BBs, the More kinetic energy you got rocking in that BB as it flies out the barrel.  Tighten the bore, even only slightly... again a more "focused" airflow ...
Combo that with nice hop up, and great performing bucking ( for straight spin , to make the BB spin upwards a bit) ... and the same weight of BBs will fly just as far, and alot straighter , a TAD bit faster.  It may, or may not be so great as to be highly effective, or noticeable... but I can say on my guns, it has been.

Now , there is SOME factor of FPS, that does effect distances... but, I think... again, it has to be an "over-all" combo, depending on the desire of the USE of the platform being operated to begin with.

Many things, FPS included, in Airsoft... is highly dependent on the situation, or intended use of.

I for one, think, for what you are ATTEMPTING to achieve, or push and AEG to do, you can get too much FPS ... that will decrease desired performance in many instances.

[Brendon]

As Dragon said above. Very informative sir. Seriously, have you ever thought of a book?

[j man 3]

FPS is a velocity not joules?

[Dragon]

FPS is a velocity not joules?

Joules, as far as I know... ( keep in mind I'm not a physic major, lol ) is simply another "measurement" type. Such as... how hard it impacts as well.  There are other factors I'm sure... but unless you are playing in Japan, I don't see any real reason to study and pick apart Joules concepts here in the USA.

 I think it tries to encompass FPS in it's formula ( how fast a BB comes out of the barrel ) , but has other factors as well.

 FPS is simply the speed of a BB of a given weight as it exits the barrel. FPS is a measurement of speed only, has nothing to do with how much energy transfer there is.

++++++++++

Books?  Lol, heavens no...
I write enough for you guys.

 +++++++++++++

Honestly,  what I am saying above, is layman's experience...  I experimented, or others I know, had done experiments to try and get better "results" or "performance" out of their AEGs.  It takes a good amount of comparison, and practical use to find out these things alot of times.

 The thing is... and this is the important parts:

No 2 AEGs are alike, even of the same brand.  They will have general common traits, but one right next to the other, from the same line ... one will shine where the other doesn't, and the other way around as well on different aspects.  Each one has it's own "personality" or quirks to it.

 Again, everything is subjective on how you try and use it ( or intend to use it) ...

 A "speed build" , or HROF AEG, has different "elements" that make up the result.  It will differ greatly, that a "standard velocity" field primary, in application, and intended use. It varies Vastly from a High Torque, High Power shooting AEG.

 A DMR , has  a different " intended use" ...

 A LMG or support weapon, also has a "intended use".

 I've honed what I need, from practicality standpoint, and to do it as CHEAP as possible.
My way , might not even be the "best way" ... but it works for me... on a personal basis.  
That in itself, lies the true "difference" ... YOU ( general you ) might desire more or less than I do, or want different results.

 

[ShootEmUp]

but real ammo is aerodynamic and airsoft bbs are not so they don't hit terminal velocity as easily because the break up the air flow.

Stupid non aerodynamic bbs! I should have known, thanks for pointing that out.

P.S.: FPS measures speed and velocity but Joules measures energy. I do know why Dragon associated FPS with Joules though, to find the energy of an object you must know it's average speed or muzzle velocity in our case. So yes you are both right (I know this one for sure because my major is in science and pyschyology).

[Metal]

To think that FPS would not grant farther range is crazy. If you shot two identical guns, with indentical weight BB's, the hopup off, but one was shooting 300fps and the other was shooting 400fps, the gun that shoots hotter is simply going to send BB's farther due to higher speed and higher potential energy of the BB. Here's some proof. Take the SA outdoor game that took place in October. D9 is primarily a field or outdoor playing team so we have mostly field rated guns, and we went up agains allot of guys that regularly play at SoGo. Allot of those guys brought out their SoGo guns and were dramatically outranged buy us on D9. It was bad enough that for the actual scenario OP, D9 was placed by themselves against everyone else. Also, my AK74U was shooting about 360fps with an M100 spring when I went to MSE's M4L. I got decent range, but not as far as I'd liked. I threw the original factory M110 back in and I'm obviously shooting at a hotter velocity and am now getting more range. The only thing I changed in the gun was the velocity.

That being said though, higher velocity should NOT be the total focus when you're wanting to gain range. As Chucky stated, the hopup system has probably the most to do with range than anything in an AEG. We at D9 are quickly learning that the hopup system in the AK variants are some of if not THE best that is availible to us. We had a triggerday just yesterday where I was using my AK74U with an inner barrel only around 10" long and I was ranging out there right along with a KWA SR10 with a Madbull Black Python 510mm(20") barrel and Promethius bucking. Also BlackieChan from a group in Fayeteville was there with his CYMA MP5 that was ranging pretty close to me as well. For some reason the M16/M4 series has a mediocre hopup that seems to be less effective. Also we're all buying up G&G green buckings over all others for their accuracy, consistancy, and range.

Dragon is right about airseal to a point. You have to remember that when you upgrade you're airseal, you're also increasing you velocity due to less air being lost. So agian, the added velocity is giving more range.

In AEG's barrel length CAN but won't always effect range. The supposed 'rule of thumb' is that the longer barrel will grant more range. The problem allot of guys run into is adding a longer barrel without making sure they're compression the right volume of air in their cylinder to be able to push the BB all the way out the barrel before the 'cycle' is cmplete and unfortunately creates negative pressure commonly called 'suck back'. That will KILL range AND velocity. Also, a tighter bore is not always better. Allot of guys that have been airsmithing for around 10 years all agree in the idea that the BB needs somewhat of a 'cushion' of air around the BB as is travels down the bore. Being tighter to the point of 6.01-6.02's can cause feeding jams and tend to allow the BB to 'bounce' around inside the barrel during it's travel and cause it to spin off center from what the hopup made it spin. This will cause more of a 'cone' effect or those random 'flyers'. I can attest to the fact that there ARE exceptions to that theory as I've had and seen personally some pretty darn good 6.01's, but almost always a good 6.03-6.04 will have better LONG RANGE accuracy than the really tight bore barrels.

It's simple physics. A bb traveling at a slower speed than an identical one cannot travel as far. Also a lighter BB traveling at the same velocity as a heavier one cannot go the same distance (in the same gun with same hopup and barrel). Just remember before you try and start giving examples of why FPS supposedly doesn't equal range, make sure you're comparing 'apples to apples' and not 'apples and oranges' if you get what I'm saying.

[j man 3]

fps only grants farther range to a point to copare 300 fps to 400 fps with same bbs and no hop up is not quite what were talking about at least for me anyways

[Metal]

Then you should specify what you're talking about. I was simply breaking it down and showing an honest comparison with ALL things alike to be comparing 'apples to apples' and not 'apples to oranges'. And if you read my entire post you'd see that I pointed out like Chucky that hopup was easily the key componant in range for an AEG.

You can't expect to  make a logical and scientific conclusion on this subject by taking an AK74 and an M4A1 out and seeing which one shoots farther with them shooting at different velocities, having different barrel lengths, different cylinder set ups, different hopup chambers, and different buckings. Once more, even if they did shoot the same velocity the experiment would be flawed. So in conclusion HAVE to do as I mentioned in my first post to get an honest conslusion.

Don't get me wrong here though, I'm not trying to say that FPS is THE thing that's going to add range. It's simply not. Yeah, it will add a little or allot depending on how much you raise it and the gun setup that you're using. But as Chucky and I said, it's the hopup. I've seen guns have nubs or spacers that were too big causeing the BB to curve up when the hopup was supposedly off. I've also seen the opposite in having a nub too small and a gun pushing 350fps with a .20g shooting .20g's can't hardly get the BB's to fly straight with the hopup all the way up. Also, the BUCKING. The problem here is people getting buckings that are too hard of too soft to pair with the velocity that their gun is shooting. Obviously if you're shooting a true DMR that is well over 400fps, a harder bucking is usually needed to keep the faster flying BB's from tearing the softer bucking as the BB goes throught the hopup chamber. But if you put a hard bucking in lower velocity guns, they seem to be less consistant, can't be fine tuned as well, and can cause 'over hop' easily. Again, that doesn't always happen, but a majority of the time it does especially by not being able to be fine tuned as easily. I've seen dramatic range gain in guns by simply changing the bucking from the stock one to an aftermarket one. For instance, I changed the bucking in my CYMA AK74 to a G&G green bucking and instantly gained at least 20yds (60ft). The results aren't always that dramatic and sometimes are better.

I say if you're going for range, look into your hopup FIRST. Get a GOOD bucking and make sure you hopup unit itself is good as well.

[Reverandff7]

This is acually a really big help on this subject. Cause to be honest i didnt know what would increase the effective range of a assualt rifle. Im glade i got a chacne to see some of this stuff.